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 Post subject: 5KG Fire Extinguisher CO2 Bottle Valve for NOS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:20 am 
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Hi all,

This is my first post but I will get straight to the point.

I have been using bugermans guide to make me a DIY nitrous kit but it is unclear about the bottle valve. My bottle is a 5KG CO2 fire extinguisher marked as below:

M25 x 2 ISO
BS 5045/3/C/S TP 200 BAR 12/98
WC 3.00 L TARE 3.00 KG GROSS 5.00 KG 2.0 KG CO2 1013

I am after the cylinder valve that has the safety burst disc and a syphon tube fitment. I ordered this:
http://gascylindersuk.co.uk/store/catal ... 0a6aa5b6b8

But when it arrived it is a 3/4 tapered thread and won't fit my bottle even though I asked the guy before ordering i need a M25 x2 when I called back he says that the only valves he has :evil: .

So where can I get the same/similar valve with a M25 x 2 suitable for my application in the UK?
I have searched over this site and most of google but cannot seem to find it also is the plastic syphon tube that comes standard to the co2 bottle ok to use with nitrous?

J


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 Post subject: Re: 5KG Fire Extinguisher CO2 Bottle Valve for NOS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 16618
Location: Doncaster
TurboJ wrote:
Hi all,

This is my first post but I will get straight to the point.

I have been using bugermans guide to make me a DIY nitrous kit but it is unclear about the bottle valve.
You follow John's (Burgerman's) advice at your own peril and for the record he's the last person on the planet that I'd follow any advice from. He may be a smart guy but his risk assessment capabilities leave a lot to be desired.


My bottle is a 5KG CO2 fire extinguisher marked as below:

M25 x 2 ISO
BS 5045/3/C/S TP 200 BAR 12/98
WC 3.00 L TARE 3.00 KG GROSS 5.00 KG 2.0 KG CO2 1013

I am after the cylinder valve that has the safety burst disc and a syphon tube fitment. I ordered this:
http://gascylindersuk.co.uk/store/catal ... 0a6aa5b6b8

But when it arrived it is a 3/4 tapered thread and won't fit my bottle even though I asked the guy before ordering i need a M25 x2 when I called back he says that the only valves he has :evil: .

So where can I get the same/similar valve with a M25 x 2 suitable for my application in the UK?
Our valve is designed to fit the type of bottle you have but we've moved on from the barbaric and dangerous use of rupture discs, plus the valve exceeds all safety requirements as well as being the highest quality valve on the market and as a consequence is far from being as cheap as generic valves.
Having said that we may have a used valve of the generic type (which has been traded in against a purchase of our Flow Max valve), that we could fix you up with but how long it would last would be anyone's guess.


I have searched over this site and most of google but cannot seem to find it
You must have missed this page then;
http://www.noswizard.com/product_desc.php?id=44

also is the plastic syphon tube that comes standard to the co2 bottle ok to use with nitrous?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

J

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 5KG Fire Extinguisher CO2 Bottle Valve for NOS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:04 am
Posts: 3
Hi,
Thanks for the swift reply.

The only part of Burgermans guide I am using is to use the CO2 Fire extinguisher bottle as that is where I am trying to save the money. I am not making the homemade solenoid like in his guide but getting the one from here:
http://www.thek9sblx.co.uk/exupracing/image.asp?id=101
£50 is a bargain :)

Also I have braided hoses from Think Automotive and jets ready to install. I just need to inject NOS as this is for a test project for Uni so I am on a budget. I have an ECU capable of controlling the fuel and many other factors for when I want to inject the NOS.

So in a nutshell all I need is an Open/Shut valve with a safety disc and metal syphon tube for a cheap price. ;)

The link you gave me to the Wizards of NOS site is useful but too far out of my budget for fancy bottle valves. Just cheap and cheerful brass with the rupture disc will be fine for my usage. If you can offer me one of these then PM me as I am interested.

J


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 Post subject: Re: 5KG Fire Extinguisher CO2 Bottle Valve for NOS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 16618
Location: Doncaster
TurboJ wrote:
The only part of Burgermans guide I am using is to use the CO2 Fire extinguisher bottle as that is where I am trying to save the money. I am not making the homemade solenoid like in his guide but getting the one from here:
http://www.thek9sblx.co.uk/exupracing/image.asp?id=101
£50 is a bargain :)
BIG MISTAKE as they are some of the worst and moist unreliable solenoids on the market and you'd actually be better off using Burgerman's 'modified' junk.

Also I have braided hoses from Think Automotive and jets ready to install.
Braided hose is yet another BIG MISTAKE and as you're on a budget you'd have found our nylon much cheaper as well as much better.

I just need to inject NOS as this is for a test project for Uni so I am on a budget. I have an ECU capable of controlling the fuel and many other factors for when I want to inject the NOS.
What formula are you going to use to determine how much extra fuel you're going to need and what calculations are you going to use to convert that to additional pulse duration for the injectors?

So in a nutshell all I need is an Open/Shut valve with a safety disc and metal syphon tube for a cheap price. ;)

The link you gave me to the Wizards of NOS site is useful but too far out of my budget for fancy bottle valves. Just cheap and cheerful brass with the rupture disc will be fine for my usage. If you can offer me one of these then PM me as I am interested.
I'll see what we have available and get back to you.

J

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 5KG Fire Extinguisher CO2 Bottle Valve for NOS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:04 am
Posts: 3
Really I thought a solenoid is a solenoid. It opens and nitrous goes through.

Nylon maybe cheaper but it’s not as safe. All top racing cars I have seen use braided. Nylon has its benefits I am aware of them but not for me I’ll stick with braided thanks. Plus it looks nice :mrgreen:

Engine mapping is my forte so no problem here. I’ll start off very rich then lean off a bit but to be honest no harm in wasting fuel to keep the NOS/Fuel ratio rich, rich mixture will be good and safe without any real power lose. My engine is already mapped so I can just percentage increase the fuel over the base map when I press the button and work from there. I’ll pull out 2 degrees of timing with a 50 BHP shot.

If you can supply me with a cheap kit minus the bottle then let me know I need:
Bottle Valve M25 x 2 ISO
Bottle Pressure Gauge
Adjustable pressure switch (to tell ECU when the bottle is low/empty)
NOS solenoid
NOS injector
25BHP, 50BHP & 75BHP Jets

J


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 Post subject: Re: 5KG Fire Extinguisher CO2 Bottle Valve for NOS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:46 am 
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 12:39 am
Posts: 1576
Location: Bournemouth
Hi J :)

Why am I banging my head on the desk here in frustration lol....

I will let Trev answer you but I will say you CANNOT mix and match like you seem to be trying to do....

You are talking about a Nitrous SYSTEM ...and thats precisely what it should be....a SYSTEM, not bits and bobs from various places....if you try that, its an excellent way to damage your engine or write it off....


You have the foremost Nitrous expert in the WORLD in Trev answering you, you "should" really listen....

Now I am ancient (57) and know quite a lot about Nitrous and even hold a couple of UK records with my Porsche with WON Nitrous but when Trev speaks... I LISTEN !

All the best Brett :)

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928S2 AUTO V8 4.7-1986-X-PIPES,RMB,ANDERSON RACE EXHAUST, WIZARDS OF NOS MAXX EXTREME RACE V2 CONTROLLER & WON PRO RACE REVO NITROUS KIT 2000 HP CAPABLE.
-UK 928 1/4 Mile and Top Speed Record Holder- Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: 5KG Fire Extinguisher CO2 Bottle Valve for NOS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 16618
Location: Doncaster
TurboJ wrote:
Really I thought a solenoid is a solenoid. It opens and nitrous goes through.
IF that were the case I wouldn't have spent HUGE sums of money developing the X-10 Pulsoids;
http://www.noswizard.com/x-10.php

Nor would I have spent many times more in developing the worlds only variable nitrous/fuel control valves - the REVO's;
http://www.noswizard.com/revo-nitrous.php

Nylon maybe cheaper but it’s not as safe.
WRONG - It's MUCH safer and I have 35 YEARS of experience of using both braided and nylon to back that statement up.
You can learn ALL the advantages of nylon and disadvantages of braided here;
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=151

All top racing cars I have seen use braided.
That's because of the following reasons ONLY;
1) The rules of racing (which were CONCOCTED some 40 or so years ago), stipulate only braided. Since suitable nylon hose was not available way back then, such a rule is obviously outdated but as ALL race authorities are lead like sheep by the all powerful NHRA and as they are strongly influenced by sponsors who have vested interest in keeping things as they've been for the past 40 plus years, it's not easy to open their eyes or change their thinking and rules so they are pertinent NOW.

2) Most serious race vehicles need large power increases and as 'current' nylon hose can only flow up to 150 HP it means that despite the fact that braided hose is JUNK, it's the ONLY stuff that will do the job, albeit badly.

3) Even if all the above weren't true, for the same reason you are using it (you've seen others using it), it would still be more common that nylon, because most people think with their eyes not their brain, so as you pointed out braided LOOKS GOOD, so people will buy and use it regardless of how dangerous it is.


Nylon has its benefits I am aware of them but not for me I’ll stick with braided thanks.
You loss not mine both from a performance perspective and cost.

Plus it looks nice :mrgreen:
And that statement sums up EVERYTHING that braided has to offer.

Engine mapping is my forte so no problem here. I’ll start off very rich then lean off a bit but to be honest no harm in wasting fuel to keep the NOS/Fuel ratio rich, rich mixture will be good and safe without any real power lose. My engine is already mapped so I can just percentage increase the fuel over the base map when I press the button and work from there. I’ll pull out 2 degrees of timing with a 50 BHP shot.
That's one way of doing it as long as you know where to start from and that still requires the appropriate calculations.
BTW is this a turbo bike? If so you're going to have distribution problems with a single nitrous nozzle in a dry format.


If you can supply me with a cheap kit minus the bottle then let me know I need:
Bottle Valve M25 x 2 ISO
Bottle Pressure Gauge
Adjustable pressure switch (to tell ECU when the bottle is low/empty)
NOS solenoid
NOS injector
25BHP, 50BHP & 75BHP Jets
All our systems are VERY cheap when you fully appraise what you get for your money but if the best performance, the best quality and the most reliable products aren't a priority to you, then I doubt you'll appreciate that statement.

If you ever decide those factors are more important than how little you pay for a product or you appreciate how much value you are getting for money spent on WON products, please feel free to complete our contacts page and Lisa will be happy to send you a quotation.

In the meantime I'll try to find you a used bottle.


J

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 5KG Fire Extinguisher CO2 Bottle Valve for NOS
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 16618
Location: Doncaster
Sorry but I was unable to find a suitable used valve for you.

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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