NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Trev, over there, I got NO RESPONSE from customers of any systems! Like I said, I have been in touch with yours like Fatty, Johnny, and Beyond, but I also think they might not be on that site to respond there as well, but I HAVE heard from them. I have heard from NO OTHER SYSTEMS/CUSTOMERS.

Little more thought and technology, I thought that would get a response, LOL

Trev, this one:

http://www.americandragracing.com/xmb1/portal.php

Hi John,

You could have made it that easy for me first time!!!!


I've never read such SHIT in my life as that post from Steve Johnson, having said that I've never seen a post by him that wasn't a crock of shit!!!!

If ever proof were needed of how stupid he is, then the following extract proves it, because only a fool makes such sweeping INCORRECT statements rather than checking out the competition first!!!!

The text below in yellow is the extract and my responses are in white.


John,

I think it's safe to say our Victor Jr. cross bar style plate is better and different then any others out there.
UTTER RUBBISH and if "different" is a measure of performance it's news to me but whatever the case, they don't come any more "different" than our Spider and the differences between the Victor Jr and other plates is insignificant in comparrison to the Spider.

If you take a look at the plate you may start to see some of the differences.
First, It has two nitrous and two fuel solenoids. No other single stage plate system offers this.
WRONG - The Spider has two nitrous and two fuel solenoids and is designed for use primarily for single staged progressive applications.

Second, the spray bars are actually four seperate sets of bars. They are dead headed in the middle.
The Spider has EIGHT sets of bars (discharge tubes) and are far better because they are NOT dead headed.

Third, this is the most under advertised plate on the market.
WRONG - We do not advertise ANY of our products - we rely on word of mouth and our web site ONLY, so you don't get anymore under advertised than that.

Edelbrock only advertises it with settings from 200-400 horsepower. Lets break it down though. Most are familiar with the NOS Big Shot system. One nitrous and one fuel solenoid. The combined area of holes in each spray is roughly equal to .120. They rate it at 325,350+, or even 400 HP depending on the ad.
In simplicity my point is ours has twice the solenoids (two nitrous and two fuels) and over twice the square area in holes in the combined spray bars. Wouldn't it be easy to say our's should make 650 HP(325 X 2 = 650) plus horsepower based on the components in the kit.
Likewise with the right flow solenoids the Spider can flow in excess of 700 hp worth of nitrous and if we see a need for more, we can offer them at 1,000 hp.

Forth, this is the only plate kit out there with four nitrous and four fuel jets. You can do more fine tuning then with any other plate out there.
WRONG - The Spider is designed to use not JUST four but EIGHT sets of jets (if needed) and therefore offers much finer tuning and even per cylinder tuning, that no other plate offers.

Fifth, our kits have stainless steel jets,
I've yet to see the need for stainless jets, despite claims that brass ones wear and I've seen no evidence that if they do wear it is significant enough to be a problem.

the nitrous solenoids all have Teflon plungers,
A more outdated and unsuitable material you couldn't find and far less suitable than the unique material we use.
Out of interest we've just stripped the new NX Lightning solenoid and discovered that they've stopped using teflon (at last) and it now looks like they're using the SAME material as we use!!!! WHAT A SURPRISE!!!!
So that's the following features NX have copied from our Pulsoid;
1) Raised the inlet port above the outlet seat for better flow.
2) Modified the back side of the outlet seat to increase flow.
3) Changed the body to alloy from stainless to reduce weight and improve appearance.
4) Changed from PTFE to material 'X' to stop leaks and improve life span
It's just lucky for us that NX weren't smart enough to see all the IMPORTANT but SUBTLE differences between our Pulsoids and generic solenoids, otherwise we'd have lost our advantage over them, well ONLY till we launched the REVO that is.

and the cross style gives the best distribution on any style of plate.
UTTER RUBBISH it couldn't possibly get close to the Spider, I doubt it's even close to the Speedtech plate and I'd even expect the Zex plate to be better than the Victor Jr.

Sixth, the system can be made into a two stage system with just a few changes.
Should anyone be STUPID enough to want to convert a single progressive stage to 2 fixed stages, then the Spider could be used that way but we're about advancing nitrous technology NOT keeping it in the Dark Ages!!!!!

I have been working for Edelbrock for over three years now. I worked for NOS for eight before this. This is the most under rated plate out there !!! I have sold these to many of my racers and told then to start on the 200 HP settings. All have told me that they have gone quicker and faster then they did with there previous kits on as big as 350 HP settings. The Victor Jr. has even out ran some of the other direct port systems out there
All I can say to that is God help them all once the Spider shows what it can do!!!!

Strange that no actual plate users gave you a response but as we've only sold a few Spiders so far and the only ones in use at present are in the UK, it's not surprising that there were no responses on a US forum from my customers.

John Heard (Beyond) has one of our Spiders in the US and once he's got his car fully built, he's intending to do some comparrison dyno pulls between it and the plate he already has, so we can give an INDEPENDENT appraisal of what the Spider can do.

Trev, Like I said in that thread over there:

"I know people don't like or care for WON systems, but there Spider plate seems to have merrit?"

I have spoken with beyond on this matter. There is not a lot of love for your product over in the "colonies". Those haters don't understand the products and the passion you have for this stuff, which might rub some the wrong way seeing you challenge these large USA NOS companies.

I hate the fact the my business is suffering at this time, but it looks like things are starting to creep back up, that means back into the car deal for 2008 season. Due to some of the rules that are in effect, this plate seems to fit my needs better, and I see the benefits of the Spider over the others. It's taken longer then I like, but I'm sure that when the car comes out with this plate, it will surprise a lot of people.

BTW Trev, there is a MAJOR race over here in 2008. At the CFSCS (CANADIAN FASTEST STREET CAR SHOOTOUT) some of your UK racers are coming back for the World Street Race II. I was wondering since racers from Canada, USA, UK, Australia, Sweden and a few other places are too show, will YOU and WON be here with a display and maybe a couple cars, like Johnny and Beyond???? Would be a major way to get your product out to various groups from around the world, PLUS the North American market????

After a badly rain affected Bug Jam here are our results..........

We now have 225 jets fitted in the spider plate.

On the 1st qualifying pass (Sunday morning) we ran a very dissapointing 9.65.As soon as the car returned to the pit area I weighed the nitrous bottles to find only 1lb used.After suffering a similar problem at round 4,it was obvious that we have an electrical issue somewhere, causing the system to either shut off part way through the run or causing only one pair of solenoids to work

The turn-around for Q2 was only about 30 minutes so I fiddled with the connector blocks to try to "fix it"

Qualifying #2: WORSE the car ran 9.90(only 1/10 sec quicker than normally aspirated) Ian said he could feel the nitrous coming in and out throughout the run but because the delivery is so smooth he hadn't felt it previously.

We decided to sit out Q3 and I set about ripping out all the nitrous system wiring from the maximiser to the solenoids and replacing it with new.
I also by-passed the fuel pressure safety switch(after verifying we had the correct pump pressure!!!) just in case that was causing the problem.

Qualifying #4: THATS BETTER...... 9.26 @ (I think)143mph. An NPB with Tims' borrowed motor. We still had a LOT of retard in and a slowish build so definately a result.

Eliminations #1: we were facing Al Simms who had qualified with an 8.70.
We pulled out all the stops and put in the quickest ramp we thought we could get away with.......The lights dropped and Ian was away with more than a 4/10 advantage. Al's car backfired on the launch and then span the tyres a little,but his 9.1 ET couldn't catch the 9.35 from the FB coupe!
(Ian reported after the run that he had actually peddaled the car about 20ft out as he could feel it getting very loose)

So........ 9.26 and 9.35 with a pedal.......We're moving fowards........ Please join us in prayer for some good weather over the August bank holiday weekend!!!! so we can get some decent track time and try for the 9.1s..........

Brain.

Something I'd overlooked when I returned from the PRI show last year, was to mention that I'd spoken to one of the designers at Wilson Manifolds (who have designed one of the best distribution blocks ever) and that he'd told me the following;

1) They had been trying to come up with a plate design that had some of the advantageous features that the Spider offers (directional discharge & individual cylinder jetting to name but 2)

2) They discovered the Spider plate and realised I'd beat them to it.

3) They were SERIOUSLY IMPRESSED by the Spider design

4) They felt they could not justify the HUGE expense of the R&D to develop such a product

Shame they didn't have the sense to become an agent.

Maybe they were upset by the fact that I told them every thing they made "looked" great BUT the ONLY part that was designed correctly was their distribution block. Some people just can't handle the TRUTH!!!!

Here's a couple of pics of our latest example of the smaller version of the Spider;

Hi Trev

Damn that looks good....

I know I cannot use one but wish I could lol...

Hmm...has a thought....

How about one upside down , that rises up through my bonnet on a motor then spins while purging C02 ???

I know, I am just weird lol...

But that seriously looks fantastic

All the best Brett

Glad you like them Brett and funny you should mention a spinning purge but that's for another thread.